Edgeflow for good deformation

Rigging
1

Hey all,

I have modelled, rigged and skinned some characters. But I have never been sure If I did it right. So this is really a question for the professional riggers/skinners/modellers.

What are really the things to keep in mind when thinking about the edgeflow of a character for having good deformation? Are there some spoken/nonspoken rules or is it just “Just try till it looks good”.

Thank you for your time.

Greetz

2

That has some good information pertaining to edgeflow, albeit high poly, but still good practice.

3

That is a great link. Thank you very much.

4

I think a good mesh flow, in reference to low poly, should have:

  1. Smooth silhouettes: A good silhouette creates less fuss while trying to get the deforming shapes rite. I find it quite helpful to check the deformations as silhouettes also.
  2. Right joint edges: I have come across many models that do not have an edge loop at the point where the joint rotates. I don’t know if there is a term for it but I call then joint edges. Also, its a good practice to have 2 edges around the joint edge, known as rule of three. Trick is not to have those other 2 edges be parallel to the joint edge rather it should be merging towards one side informing which way the mesh bends. If you have a tight poly budget instead of usingf rule of three, you can have a Y-shape joint edge.
  3. Right edge density. Try to keep the spacing almost the same in all the places but at the same time make sure that deforming areas are more dense than the rigid parts.
  4. Good neutral pose. I think a good neutral pose is very crucial. A good neutral pose should have all the joints little bend. I found arm pose at 75 degree better than 45 or 90. 45/90 works good with not so muscular characters but I have found 75 to have more range of characters esp with heavy deltoids. 75 gives you room to have rite amount of edge loops in the under arm area and chances of less texture streching. Hands facing front instead of down, this is not that imp but it just gives you better control over the twisty deformation. Having said that, there are many other variables that decides the neutral pose such as, character design, armours etc.
  5. Matching mesh-flow. Characters with cloths or added layers should have the same mesh-flow as the inside mesh. Pretty basic :slight_smile:

The above mentioned points are just an idea, there are no fixed rules. In my case I still don’t have a fix set of points that works in every case. The way I look at it is, that one should understand the idea and improvise according to the character’s needs. Even though its very important to be focused on artistic side of rigging but anything that speed the process is equally important such as good neutral pose etc.

5

This is a great topic that unfortunately seems to be overlooked too often at studios. I think Abhishek hit the nail right on the head. The only point I disagree on is the relaxed pose. I like to model in 90 for all characters. It makes rig setup easier and my philosophy is, if you can deform it correctly into the 90 pose from modeling a relaxed pose then you should be able to to do the same in reverse.

One thing I recommend is deforming as you go. You will be able to see right away where the geometry is not working. No point in getting finished with the model, weighting it completely and then finding out it doesn’t work. Take advantage of maya’s skinned editing that was added in 2009 to find the best place for that joint to be to get the best deformation.

6

How you mean deforming as you go? You mean putting your rig in a pose so you can see if it will move good? Or editing with morphs? Srry if this is a noob question :s

7

Actually, Check out this! http://www.macaronikazoo.com/?p=188 . We have something very similar to this here at Reelfx, Basically lets you move the joint where you want and reset the bind. I like it much better than maya’s built in version.

8

I do mean putting your rig in a pose to see if it will move well. I will often bind the mesh at its current state, bend the elbow, spend 30 seconds painting the weights, and if I can’t get the elbow to start looking like an elbow in those 30 seconds I know that some tweaks need to be made to the model.

Just a general tip: don’t get caught up in modeling the details until you have a good foundation that can deform properly. Get your loops built in all of the areas that will deform the most and make sure you joints are in the correct spot before you take the model too far. It’s much easier to build up the details than it is to try to alter your detailed mesh.

9

[QUOTE=Nysuatro;6027]
I have modelled, rigged and skinned some characters. But I have never been sure If I did it right. So this is really a question for the professional riggers/skinners/modellers.
[/QUOTE]

polycount wiki has a nice resource:
http://wiki.polycount.net/Topology

this one:
http://wiki.polycount.net/Limb_Topology

shoulder topology covered in the following wiki is nice as well…
Always room for improvement with shoulder strategies tho:tear:
( anyone got some super savvy shoulder tricks/tips to share? )

http://wiki.polycount.net/Shoulder_Topology

The source for the previous:
http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=46031

.

10

These are some great posts. Thanks everybody.

11

[QUOTE=Bharris;6080]Actually, Check out this! http://www.macaronikazoo.com/?p=188 . We have something very similar to this here at Reelfx, Basically lets you move the joint where you want and reset the bind. I like it much better than maya’s built in version.[/QUOTE]

resetSkinCluster has saved my ass on many many occasions… luckily max has it built in, so when i switched this was one tool that i didn’t have to rewrite =). it was absolutely invaluable in rigging (before it was added to maya - no idea what the built in version is like)

12

@Roger Klado: gr8 links man

@ David Suroviec: I agree with you that its easier to rig the character that way, but I have had faced issues with muscular characters with huge arms, say beast of instance. Our modelers feel more comfortable if the character is not exact 90, coze then they can work on the deltoid’s shapes better. Also 90 never gave me satisfying deformations in the under arm area. But u have made me think again, coze it shud work the other way too!! lol.
Its a gr8 advice, that bones shud be at the rite spots. I spend a little extra time on getting the bone placements rite, coze sometimes, since u have placed all ur joints at the rite place, the default skin does a pretty gud job itself.
I use max a lot too and ‘always deform’ is an old but super cool feature where you can change the joint placement with the bind pose. Something what Brandon is talk abot. Clavicle positioning wudn’t have been easier without this feature, since, I always tweak it while skinning.
Also, a clean mesh is something I always pray for. I simply HATE those spiral loops!! The ones that starts from shoulder and ends up in the forearms. Loops shud be circular, the mesh shud be a series of circles rather than a big spiral loop.

13

This can sound crazy. but could someone record himself a full session of skinning in 3ds max? For me this would be great to see someone else in action using his approach.

14

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