this is a question that usually gets asked at the GDC TA round table but I’d like to ask it here as well: As a TA, do you still get to work as an artist from time to time? Or do you feel like a tools programmer? And how do you feel about it…
Coming from an art-background (Character Artist) I have a strong opinion on this. Without actually joining production to some extend I think it is hard to make the current work flow more efficient. I heard “looking over the artists shoulder” and hearings is what’s been done in some companies but this cannot beat hands-on experience imho. The same goes for trying out new tech/DCCs to make ones won work better visually and more efficient, no?
I guess what I’m angry about really is my companies rather rigid performance rating scheme. If you are a TA, you get rated if you make things efficient/good tools, well your “TA-skill”. And obviously if you are an artist you’re as good as your work is pretty.
Personally just scripting all the time is not enough for me but if I were to take the “artist role” I also want to be recognized for the scripts that help production. That sounds pretty arrogant now but I think myself as pretty good cg-artist but I also like doing shader work and making tools at the same time.
My comapny started up an R&D team back in November 2009 and I joined pretty much straight away. Coming from an environment and character artist background, I immediately noticed I was no longer on the art production end as I was responsible for the entire company, from shader authoring to writing MEL scripts to evaluating art pipelines across teams and beta test software.
As an R&D team we do have our own projects we want to pursue so it simply isn’t a case of us being treated as in-sourcers, though if it’s for a short block of time we’ll help to produce prototypes or a benchmark one-off model.
My Art Director made a point of scheduling “personal art time” every fortnight to ensure I and my colleagues work on art projects so we get a break from the heavy technical work. It by no means replaces the amount of artwork in a proper production schedule but means I’m always there to hands-on test what I’m doing makes sense to pass onto game teams - I am still expected to produce a decent bit of art from that time though
I guess at the end of the day, I’m recognised as the “firefighter” and even if I were to move back to environments or characters I’d still find production issues I want to streamline. I guess it’s just how you’re wired… You can’t help but try to make your colleague’s life easier with a tool or process or just plain ole analysis.
Isn’t there a way you can be recognised if you contribute scripts/shaders to Square’s global tech? I guess you’re after more than a “Thanks to” or “Shader dude” slot in the games credits.
I have been talking to some people about this. And I only found one person who did art and coding. For me this sounded logical that you would also make art as an technical artist. But it looks like there are not a lot of people who may do it.
[QUOTE=sschoellhammer;5306] Without actually joining production to some extend I think it is hard to make the current work flow more efficient. I heard “looking over the artists shoulder” and hearings is what’s been done in some companies but this cannot beat hands-on experience imho.[/QUOTE]
I really doubt that there are many TAs out there that haven’t come from production, be it code or art itself.
I don’t produce much game art itself anymore, and my job involves a lot of art ‘adequation’ nowadays. So… I’m part of the pipeline there.
In that position, I was never ‘rated’ for artistic skills, or TA-skills. If the artists completed their tasks in time, with my tools or my advice, and I could complete the export process for assets in due time, no matter how I did it, it was a thumbs up.
I guess people here are more often looking at the end results, and not really interested in the means.
The company I’m at is very small (about 13 people in all) and I find myself being both the only TA, as well as the only Animator, so to an extent my work is judged on both fronts, my tools and my animation. I will say doing both definitely breaks up the monotony of just scripting, or just animating. It also is hugely satisfying knowing that I am a key component on the team (without me nothing in our games move).
But at the same time I find myself frustrated that I don’t have more people to bounce ideas off of once in a while. All the artists I work with have no idea what the fundamentals of animation are, or the intricacies of the rigs I’ve built. They just see that it all works, and looks good, so they are satisfied.
I guess in the end, that’s all that really matters, right?
When things really get down to the wire, I have from time to time took up many different hats to compensate for our relatively small art staff here, but that’s the exception.
The huge majority of the time I’m not involved in actual asset creation, but I do work with the artists in figuring out ways to achieve certain artistic goals and solve problems they have with our tech.
So, in some ways, I have more impact on the art than any individual artist!
[QUOTE=sschoellhammer;5306]As a TA, do you still get to work as an artist from time to time? [/QUOTE]
No. I’m pretty much all code all the time. The only time i have Maya open is to look at broken content or test tools, and since all of our Maya dev is in Python, i don’t often test tools actually in Maya unless there’s a UI component.
[QUOTE=sschoellhammer;5306]Or do you feel like a tools programmer? And how do you feel about it…[/QUOTE]
Definitely a tools programmer. I actually like it just because I really dig coding. Also I get to be more involved in larger studio discussions/decisions than i would be if i were an artist.
I like where this thread is going. I’d like to hear more from others.
I definitely feel more like a tools programmer (that is when I’m doing technical art).
I am also at a smaller studio that “needs” me to do art production from time to time.
During production cycles, along with pipeline assessment/tools/scripts, I often get tasked to particles/vfx, import/export, and even some memory budgeting.
During pre-production I am often working on shaders/material setups to help us arrive at a visual style, plus am involved with early animation talks to establish directions for character rigs etc.
At a smaller place it would seem the TA gets to be fairly hands-on with R&D work during pre-production/prototype phases.
The only artistic thing I do is tweaking materials and creating some special FX.
Everything else is pretty much what you guys mentioned: fixing issues, setting up characters (no rigging though), creating tools, prototyping shaders and small game play features in lua, talking with programmers and holding the strings together in general.
I really like the special FX thing and coming up with new, more awesome ways of doing things. I didn’t create a full assets for 2 years though. :p:
We have one other tech artist working on cinematics, so there’s animation and special FX work involved.
Our tech animators skin, rig and export most of the time.
I also believe that tech artists should keep nurturing their artistic side - be it in personal projects - otherwise we will forget the needs of our customers (artists) to quickly.
Well for my part in 2005 I went from modeler/texturer to rigger,scripter, programmer.
My pay went from very low to very awesome And at some point I felt like I was missing an artistic aspect to my work and decided to start doing music again …
I’m still able to open zbrush, tweaks textures redo topology on a model etc. but mostly I’ll be giving a hand wen its needed else 90% of my work is tool design, enhancement or implementation and I like that
[QUOTE=saschaherfort;5321]I didn’t create a full assets for 2 years though. :p:[/QUOTE]
I love when the “oh, show me a bit of your work”, or “please send me images of your portfolio” comes up.
My last (catastrophic) attempt at a portfolio was a 7 minute-long demo reel, trying to explain what I did in various situations; of course, none of it involved one single ‘full asset’.
We only have 2 technical artist in our studio and I’m in charge of the rigging pipeline for multiple projects, so I rarely have time to do production art. (Unless you count occasionally setting up rigs and face blends)
I’m fine with that though because I feel like I have a bigger impact on the whole production than if I was just creating art assets. My task priorities usually fall under the following:
I end up doing a little bit of everything. For Flight Simulator X, I was the only technical artist on the team. I basically wrote all of the art tools and managed the content pipeline, I was the sole special effects artist for the studio and I created a bunch of 3d content and animation (everything from characters to animals to a jet truck and the demolition of an oil rig in reactor).
In the new studio, I am much more focused on pipeline and tools, although since we’re moving into a DCC agnostic space, I am working more in C# than in MaxScript. I did end up doing some 3d content production for our greenlight which will probably get used in the final game, and I’m still the only effects and shader artist in the studio.
Microsoft actually encourages you to develop your skills and continue to grow, so my boss actually forced me (thankfully) to learn ZBrush and some other new stuff recently (even though it didn’t necessarily apply to what we are doing right now). I’ll never be modeling or animating the lead character in our game, but it’s entirely likely that I will be creating quick 3d content and animation when needed.
I’m split about 50% between visual effects and technical art. This works well for me, as I enjoy bouncing back and forth, and it gives me the satisfaction of owning assets and seeing an artistic contribution through from start to finish.
However, I do have to make an active effort to avoid becoming critical path on more than one role. Wearing lots of hats is great, but you still only have one head.
[QUOTE=Drew;5340]avoid becoming critical path on more than one role.[/QUOTE]
You put it in words! I keep saying “I want to just do Tech Art”, but just the other day someone actually challenged that with “What do you mean by that?”.
What you are saying here is exactly it. Recently I have been “critical path” for Environments & VFX along with all of the regular TA tasks (tools, pipeline, shaders, etc). Its a ton of pressure.
I think that perhaps much of upper management in the game industry does not know how to handle/task a TA appropriately. They see someone who can do so many things and end up spreading them too thin. Ultimately it is up to us to look out for this and not bite off more than we can chew (if we have a choice that is)
I’ve gone out of my way to stay an artist… therefore I probably wouldn’t be considered a true tech artist and have never applied for a tech art role. Although I have been a programmer in the past, I don’t do any tools coding - however, in my fairly small company (approx. 50-60 people depending on when you look) I’m the closest thing they have (to a tech artist)
I spend my (tech) time devising art pipelines and structuring (and optimizing) how assets are created, producing effects and material effects, lighting, some (limited) rigging - mostly vehicles, producing specs for tools and scripts, some scripting and being a general go-between amongst the disciplines…also when no-one else is available I take on the lead role, but have no real desire to be lead any more (I’ve been lead on a few projects but it was also threatening to take over from my art-time) - oh, and fixing things, naturally.
Although I was fortunate enough to be credited as “senior technical artist” in my last few projects, I’m still an environment artist and wouldn’t want to give up painting textures for anything… am still working on salary issues though! If I wasn’t doing art, I would definitely not be happy with the word “artist” in my job description… artists do art.
[QUOTE=Drew;5340]However, I do have to make an active effort to avoid becoming critical path on more than one role. Wearing lots of hats is great, but you still only have one head.[/QUOTE]
I’m still learning that lesson the hard way. I thought I was doing well steering clear of animation, but I definitely need to drop one or two other things. It’s not really possible where I am currently, unfortunately.
[QUOTE=iko;5326]I love when the “oh, show me a bit of your work”, or “please send me images of your portfolio” comes up.
My last (catastrophic) attempt at a portfolio was a 7 minute-long demo reel, trying to explain what I did in various situations; of course, none of it involved one single ‘full asset’.[/QUOTE]
That’s it, that’s where I am.
Once you’ve started doing the friendly “hybrid-scripter” handyman : everyone loves you.
If the need stays, you have a happy job for life, but if other circumstances occur : you might have to re-start looking around with cv in the pocket basically saying “I’m not a coder neither an artist but I can do all sorts of exciting things!! :D:”
And it takes a whole new great deal of courage to spend evenings and weekends to get back on track with a decent pure art portfolio.
If you had the chance to work for big monster game companies along with hundreds of co-workers on “AAAAA titles” you’re okay.
Not the same story compared to experiencing a career through fragile small businesses on half-succesful and unknown projects.
For me it varies from place to place. My last job I’ve spent 90% of my time in an editor writing code concentrating on pipeline and tools. Now, I’m far more involved in modeling/animation/rigging.
But yeah I definitely dread that time when it comes to making a demo reel as a TA
[QUOTE=iko;5326]I love when the “oh, show me a bit of your work”, or “please send me images of your portfolio” comes up.
My last (catastrophic) attempt at a portfolio was a 7 minute-long demo reel, trying to explain what I did in various situations; of course, none of it involved one single ‘full asset’.[/QUOTE]
Boy, I hear that. I still have nightmares of designing my first reel. Those statements you mention are particularly tough. Ah well, I think it’s worth it in the end.
During my “transitional” stage I was split about 50/50 art/code but as time passed I now I spend almost 100% of my time working on tools and “pipeline lubrication” (as Dyllan Lu likes to call it).
In my case it came down to the fact that I was a little better at code than the artistic stuff, so I was more valuable to them doing this and allowing others to take on the art roles. They did give me the choice to stay in a more artistic role or keep trying to do both but it made more sense to move in this direction.
And like Seth mentioned as well, working more on the coding side sometimes lets you be more involved with the larger studio discussions as you and what you’re doing are a more integral part of the pipeline.
