Artist looking for advice > becoming a programer? help pls

Professional
1

Hello everyone. Ive been getting almost no sleep for the last few weeks thinking so hard about the crossroads I am in. Its been bouncing around my head so much Ive decided to ask my question out loud, see what hits me back. As the title says, Im a 3d animation and post production artist. Ive been really frustrated lately. I have over 10 years of experience in this field, and Ive noticed that there seems to be a really unstable cycle. A few great years of non stop feel like a rock-star work, and a few years of barely scraping by. At first I thought it was because I was new to the industry, then because I wasn’t seasoned enough. But now Im just not sure. I really dont want to spend the rest of my life constantly scrounging for work, especially with a family.

So here is the question: Is programing any better? Im not the greatest at math, but I have experience with programing languages (MEL, actionscript, HTML) and though its never blown my skirt up, I dont mind it.

I constantly see job posts for programers. I constantly hear people asking for programers. But my greatest concern is that this might be another grass is greener situations.

So I ask you guys out there with experience in studios: are programers generally more valuable and sought after than artists? Or do you guys look at us in the same way as I do you? I just dont know anymore. Im just tired of these cycles where I go from being ok to counting every last dime. im rambling. sorry…

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Programmers make more money and have much more widely-useful skills outside of games and entertainment (which means you have far more job opportunities if you’re willing to branch out into, say, web development).

3

I would say find what blows your skirt up and do that if you can, you’ll always put your all into it and get the most out of it.

However, when you have other commitments, like family to support interesting and capable can put food on the table and definately if you have an aptitude for it then programming and techart I have found to be a surer route to continued employment, still been made redundant a year ago and moved city to get another job in techart. Can happen to anyone. As Rob points out developing programming skills can give you more opportunities in related fields. You already have art skills, now round out your programming experience and make yourself more employable and flexible. Now you’re gettin me ramblin’

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Rob, Neil, thanks. I agree that programing would increase my value. Im just concerned that Im going from one profession that constantly has trouble, to another one. The trouble with the techart field, as I see it, is that your 8 years of expertise in MAYA or AE comes to nothing when the world moves on to Houdini or whatever. Im not against learning, it just seems that every day, Im spending more and more time learning more and more software. I never feel like I really LEARN anything, because I need to get things out the door ASAP. Consequently, I only learn as little as I need to, to get the job done. Im worried that ill invest in another career where the same will happen. Every few years, ill have to learn yet another new programing language.

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Neil, speaking of blowing skirts up, is there a particular place where 3d artists turned programers go in the 3d animation/vfx/post production world? Is there a natural void where the knowledge of that pipeline is essential to a programer job?

6

You might want to check out Cal Newport’s blog. He talks a lot about the ideas you are worrying about.

I’ll link to his “career craftsman manifesto” which seems relevant to the idea of skirts being blown up and whatnot, but take a read through the blog.

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[QUOTE=rallyfanche;14574]Im just concerned that Im going from one profession that constantly has trouble, to another one. The trouble with the techart field, as I see it, is that your 8 years of expertise in MAYA or AE comes to nothing when the world moves on to Houdini or whatever.[/QUOTE]

This is a valid concern, but learning programming transcends the general knowledge of knowing specific applications and, Rob mentioned, has a wide range of uses beyond Tech Art. That being said, you learn a LOT from working intimately with an application, and this knowledge makes the task of diving head first into a new software package a lot less painful :D:

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There are plenty of 3D software operators out there. There are lot fewer good artists. A strong studio will always want to hire the good artist over the software operator. A good artist approaches an assignment with a clear vision and the ability to self-critique and iterate until they’ve executed that vision. Knowing all the ins and outs of a specific software can make you faster, but it won’t make sub-par art any better.

So if you’ve got the skills to be a great artist, you should practice them however you like and not worry about which software package you’re using. Heck, practice them on paper on in clay. A good final product will always speak well of you to a prospective employer, regardless of the medium or software used to produce it. It takes a lot less time to pick up a new package than to become a proficient artist.

There are strong parallels for programmers. If you’re a sloppy coder with a narrow understanding of common patterns of design, you won’t be any better in C# than in Java. And if you’re a good coder in one language, you’ll be good enough in another to get by until you pick up new language-specific expertise… and then you’ll be great. Learning another language is so much less work than learning the fundamentals and common design patterns that apply across the board. So don’t let the thought of language obsolescence stop you from embarking on a new career. It won’t be nearly as much of a problem as you seem to anticipate.

Tech art uses foundation skills from both those fields, as well as communication skills, trouble-shooting, creativity and logical thinking.

If you’ve got good foundation skills, you can apply them in any development environment. And if you’ve spent eight years as a TA developing those foundation skills in Maya/Mel, and suddenly you’ve got to shift to Max/C#, or Houdini/Python, those eight years definitely don’t come to nothing.

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[QUOTE=Roxol;14584]This is a valid concern, but learning programming transcends the general knowledge of knowing specific applications and, Rob mentioned, has a wide range of uses beyond Tech Art. That being said, you learn a LOT from working intimately with an application, and this knowledge makes the task of diving head first into a new software package a lot less painful :D:[/QUOTE]

Yes, Roxol, but there is always a new language to learn isnt there? And old ones become obsolete ever faster. Who uses Pascal or COBOL anymore? I feel the same way about MAX/MAYA right now. The software is always being rebooted year after year. Its a never ending learning curve. I want to get better at my art, instead I feel like Im always spending my time learning the newest shiny hammer instead…

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[QUOTE=Bronwen;14587]There are plenty of 3D software operators out there. There are lot fewer good artists. A strong studio will always want to hire the good artist over the software operator. A good artist approaches an assignment with a clear vision and the ability to self-critique and iterate until they’ve executed that vision. Knowing all the ins and outs of a specific software can make you faster, but it won’t make sub-par art any better.

So if you’ve got the skills to be a great artist, you should practice them however you like and not worry about which software package you’re using. Heck, practice them on paper on in clay. A good final product will always speak well of you to a prospective employer, regardless of the medium or software used to produce it. It takes a lot less time to pick up a new package than to become a proficient artist.

There are strong parallels for programmers. If you’re a sloppy coder with a narrow understanding of common patterns of design, you won’t be any better in C# than in Java. And if you’re a good coder in one language, you’ll be good enough in another to get by until you pick up new language-specific expertise… and then you’ll be great. Learning another language is so much less work than learning the fundamentals and common design patterns that apply across the board. So don’t let the thought of language obsolescence stop you from embarking on a new career. It won’t be nearly as much of a problem as you seem to anticipate.

Tech art uses foundation skills from both those fields, as well as communication skills, trouble-shooting, creativity and logical thinking.

If you’ve got good foundation skills, you can apply them in any development environment. And if you’ve spent eight years as a TA developing those foundation skills in Maya/Mel, and suddenly you’ve got to shift to Max/C#, or Houdini/Python, those eight years definitely don’t come to nothing.[/QUOTE]

…wow. That was…amazing. Thank you.

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[QUOTE=clesage;14579]You might want to check out Cal Newport’s blog. He talks a lot about the ideas you are worrying about.

I’ll link to his “career craftsman manifesto” which seems relevant to the idea of skirts being blown up and whatnot, but take a read through the blog.
http://calnewport.com/blog/2011/08/11/the-career-craftsman-manifesto/[/QUOTE]

Clesage, this is great! Ill have to read it on my lunch break! Thank you.

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If you’ve got that “I’m at a crossroads in my life” feeling, and you’re tempted by delving more into the tech side, I’d suggest taking a class or two on programming. Particularly a class in a sequence that leads to a degree, if you continue it. This’ll set you up for success long term, as you’ll be formally trained if you enjoy it, which will only lead to more $ and job opportunities. But a main benefit is that you’ll stop freakin’ out and FEEL like you’re on a path to something better.

That’s how it worked for me, at least!

:slight_smile:

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[QUOTE=patconnole;14612]If you’ve got that “I’m at a crossroads in my life” feeling, and you’re tempted by delving more into the tech side, I’d suggest taking a class or two on programming. Particularly a class in a sequence that leads to a degree, if you continue it. This’ll set you up for success long term, as you’ll be formally trained if you enjoy it, which will only lead to more $ and job opportunities. But a main benefit is that you’ll stop freakin’ out and FEEL like you’re on a path to something better.

That’s how it worked for me, at least!

:)[/QUOTE]

patconnole: I see the logic…and believe me, I WANT to go in that direction. I want to just jump into something and feel like I have direction. Im very focused that way. But because I am focused, I dont want to pour everything into a new basket and find myself with the same problems. Its like…its like Im breaking up with my 10 year girlfriend, 3d animation & VfX. For the chance mind you, the chance of dating “programing”. I just dont want to give up a solid relationship for a grass is greener programing. I was really just hoping to find other people here who had been through what I did, and get their take/experiences maybe. Were you an artist turned programer? How did it turn out for you?

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It’s still in progress for me, but I’m really happy. I was an animator, trying to informally work my way into tech-art. It wasn’t moving fast enough though, and I felt ‘stuck’, so I went to school at night in a program that worked great for people with full time jobs.

Since I kept my animator position, I wasn’t ‘breaking up’ with my 6-year girlfriend. I was just slowly introducing a prettier, more nerdy girl to situation. Because it was a slow transition from one to the other, I didn’t have to give up animating - I just had more choices, which felt empowering.

It’s definitely turning out for the best!

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So I ask you guys out there with experience in studios: are programers generally more valuable and sought after than artists? Or do you guys look at us in the same way as I do you? I just dont know anymore. Im just tired of these cycles where I go from being ok to counting every last dime. im rambling. sorry…

The direct answer you’re looking for is “Yes”.

Programmers are more valuable and have more job security. Across multiple fields as well (not just entertainment).

Of course, there may still be high standards to hit which you may or may not be able to reach (not everyone who can script will necessarily be a good programmer). Also, a stable job is not a guarantee. Any job can be lost, across any field. In my opinion, “job security” is an illusion which benefits companies, not individuals.

I assume that you are able to take the time to learn to be a good programmer, and that you don’t have a problem doing something that doesn’t thrill you in order to provide a stable life for your family.

As such, I would suggest: Become a programmer. Formally learn to do it, and get a programming job (for a year or two).

After that, you will be able to decide for yourself if you really want more money/stability, or if you want to be happy. Maybe you’ll get lucky and have both (either you really end up loving programming, or you start a career being an animation/vfx programmer where your skill sets mesh). Maybe you are even able to do 3d/vfx regularly, and take up contract programming work when your 3d work is scarce.

Regardless, at least at that point it would be a knowledgeable choice, rather than a situation imposed by fear of the unknown (grass is greener, etc) or desperation. You would have the toolset to be in control to choose how you take care of your top two priorities: Your family, and your personal growth/enjoyment of life/career.

I think you will find that “being in control of your environment” goes a long way toward removing frustration/fear.

That’s my “straight talk express” opinion.

My other opinion is “do what you love and figure out how to make it work”. My personal experience is that I was a senior programmer/analyst for 11 years (in financial business) and I switched to being a tech animator/pipeline guy (which meant saving money for years in preparation to support my family before I was unemployed and going to school for animation). Now I make less money and have less job security, but I am quite happy. However I know I have programming/system analysis skills to fall back on (if need be), and I also know that my skill set means that while my current job may be lost some day, my ability to be employed (somewhere) is “secure”.

Also, I know many programmers outside of the games industry who daydream of being in entertainment. I haven’t met anyone in entertainment who daydreams of being in financial software development :slight_smile:

Hope that helps, or is at least amusing to read.

Phil

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No reason to split from art completely. If you can find your way into an art position and studio with some flexibility, try proposing some scripting tasks to your duties as you discover ways to improve the art pipeline. Depending on where you work, a job description change might not be necessary to start demonstrating you have additional versatility and value.

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Thank you all. Youve given me a lot to think about. Keep the thoughts coming, but in case this topic is dead, I want to give my thanks for all the great words of advice and encouragement.